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Model
lauren-aimee
Posts: 3
Bromsgrove-Catshill, England, United Kingdom


I know i sound VERY naive here but whats the age when you can start 'glamour' modelling as such ? i've been asked about a nude shoot and i thought you had to be 18 + but they said its unpublished so 16 is fine. What do you make of that ?
Sep 04 12 06:07 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,856
Olivet, Michigan, US


"Nude" is, in the US, technically legal at any age.  It is unwise for the photographer below 18.  Probably also unwise for the model.

My understanding is that the situation is, if anything, MORE restrictive in the UK.  The problem is with very vague language on what is, and isn't, legal.  There is simply no way to tell in advance.  That being the case, usually, responsible photographers stay away from glamour with under 18 models, and the "unpublished" aspect isn't reassuring.

If Studio36 contradicts anything I said, believe him.  If he doesn't, believe him anyway.
Sep 04 12 06:14 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


lauren-aimee wrote:
I know i sound VERY naive here but whats the age when you can start 'glamour' modelling as such ? i've been asked about a nude shoot and i thought you had to be 18   but they said its unpublished so 16 is fine. What do you make of that ?

That is complete nonsense.

MM rules state that minors cannot solicit for nude work and cannot upload nudes (even implied where nothing is showing) to their portfolios.

The British Law states that 'children' (people under 18) cannot be photographed in an "indecent" manner and that any photographer who does so is liable to prosecution under the Protection of Children Act.  Nudity per-se is not necessarily "indecent", but most people (including a judge and jury) are likely to think that 'glamour' photography (as it is understood in the UK - eg. Page 3, Zoo, Nuts etc.) including clothed glamour is either indecent or very close to it.

My advice would be to inform the photographer what the law says and advise him to find a model over 18 to shoot his 'glamour' with instead. If he persists or pesters you, then report him to the mods here using this link

http://www.ripoffreport.com



Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Sep 04 12 06:16 am  Link  Quote 
Model
lauren-aimee
Posts: 3
Bromsgrove-Catshill, England, United Kingdom


thank you smile i'll definitely say no then !
Sep 04 12 06:28 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


lauren-aimee wrote:
thank you smile i'll definitely say no then !

Good thinking smile





Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Sep 04 12 06:30 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jeffrey M Fletcher
Posts: 4,342
Asheville, North Carolina, US


In this case what I make of it is that you are being solicited for something inappropriate, say no.

You should not be in further communication with this person.
Sep 04 12 07:30 am  Link  Quote 
Digital Artist
Koray
Posts: 6,685
Ankara, Ankara, Turkey


lauren-aimee wrote:
thank you smile i'll definitely say no then !

yes...good thinking indeed smile

Sep 04 12 07:38 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AllisonRPhotos
Posts: 90
Arlington, Virginia, US


lauren-aimee wrote:
I know i sound VERY naive here but whats the age when you can start 'glamour' modelling as such ? i've been asked about a nude shoot and i thought you had to be 18 + but they said its unpublished so 16 is fine. What do you make of that ?

>>"Unpublished"? Sounds like he's just trying to add something to the spank bank.

In most countries you're not allowed to do such things until 18, and even then sometimes it seems things can get tricky. I would do no such thing with someone underage  - whether it just be implied nudity or actual nudity. In the U.S. if you're under 18 and take nude images of yourself you (the picture taker) could be arrested for the creation of child pornography. If you send it to someone else under 18 (or over 18) then you (being underage) could get arrested for the distribution of child pornography and they could get arrested for having it.

It just isn't worth it. Wait until you're older to do anything like that.

Sep 04 12 08:36 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Hugh Alison
Posts: 2,105
Aberystwyth, Wales, United Kingdom


lauren-aimee wrote:
...they said its unpublished so 16 is fine. What do you make of that ?

Very very suspicious - and quite incorrect.

Contact the moderators if you continue to be pestered (or the police if the photographer is not on llamamayhem).

Sep 04 12 08:42 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Don Garrett
Posts: 4,304
Escondido, California, US


I would like to point out that there is a distinct difference between "legal" and "moral". But staying out of trouble has it's upside !
-Don
Sep 04 12 08:43 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,304
Salem, Oregon, US


how much are they willing to pay? lol

would your parents be onboard with such a thing?

the decision to start doing nudes shouldn't be made lightly regardless of age. those nude pictures could be seen by friends, relatives, potential employers, school officials. even if the photographer says "unpublished" you have no guarantee on that (you certainly read about cases where a model becomes famous and the photographer publishes the images anyway).

your laws and culture may be different but around here i won't do nudes unless they are 18. and really i'm happier if they are 20+. even at 20 the model may still be living at home and thus heavily influenced by the parents.
Sep 04 12 08:57 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
The Aperture Studio
Posts: 95
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


lauren-aimee wrote:
thank you smile i'll definitely say no then !

Smart move!

You are young. You have time. Wait until you are eighteen.

Sep 04 12 09:05 am  Link  Quote 
Model
NicoleNudes
Posts: 3,808
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:
That is complete nonsense.

MM rules state that minors cannot solicit for nude work and cannot upload nudes (even implied where nothing is showing) to their portfolios.

The British Law states that 'children' (people under 18) cannot be photographed in an "indecent" manner and that any photographer who does so is liable to prosecution under the Protection of Children Act.  Nudity per-se is not necessarily "indecent", but most people (including a judge and jury) are likely to think that 'glamour' photography (as it is understood in the UK - eg. Page 3, Zoo, Nuts etc.) including clothed glamour is either indecent or very close to it.

My advice would be to inform the photographer what the law says and advise him to find a model over 18 to shoot his 'glamour' with instead. If he persists or pesters you, then report him to the mods here using this link

http://www.ripoffreport.com



Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

1

I'd report the photographer anyways. You're not allowed to ask minors to pose nude for you. I don't think this is exactly the kind of person MM wants to have on their site.

Sep 04 12 09:06 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,304
Salem, Oregon, US


i thought age of consent was 16 (or even lower) in some countries? or does mayhem define minor as under 18 regardless of country?

NicoleNudes wrote:
I'd report the photographer anyways. You're not allowed to ask minors to pose nude for you. I don't think this is exactly the kind of person MM wants to have on their site.

Sep 04 12 09:08 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
howard r
Posts: 485
Los Angeles, California, US


NicoleNudes wrote:
+1

I'd report the photographer anyways. You're not allowed to ask minors to pose nude for you. I don't think this is exactly the kind of person MM wants to have on their site.

+1

Sep 04 12 09:10 am  Link  Quote 
Model
NicoleNudes
Posts: 3,808
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


twoharts wrote:
i thought age of consent was 16 (or even lower) in some countries? or does mayhem define minor as under 18 regardless of country?

I'm not going to pretend to know the UK law, because I don't. But I know the rules on MM.

http://www.modelmayhem.com/help/rules/m … quirements

You Must Be 16
Members must be 16 years of age or older. Members under 18 are not allowed to display photos that we deem too provocative or revealing. Unless you’re 18 or over you may not display any level of nudity/sheer (that includes “implied” nudity), depictions of bondage or any image that is sexual in nature.

He's asking her to shoot nude, which is a big no-no.

Sep 04 12 09:20 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ray Cornett
Posts: 9,203
Sacramento, California, US


It seems we are assuming two things here:
1. The that photographer wants to do Glamour Nudes because she mentioned the word Glamour in her post.

2. That it was someone on MM that asked her.
Sep 04 12 09:25 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Designit - Edward Olson
Posts: 1,629
Eureka, California, US


For everyone's edification, and before everyone gets out their pitchforks, I would like someone to please point out anywhere in the MM rules where it says anything about the permissability of models under 18 posing nude or where it says that you can't ask a model under 18 to pose nude (not where it says that they may not post images of models under 18 nude, sheer, implied, bondage, blood, etc.).

Thanks.

To the original poster, that the photographer doesn't intend to display or publish the images is highly questionable. I would suggest having your parents contact him for more information. That should clear things up.
Sep 04 12 09:31 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


twoharts wrote:
i thought age of consent was 16 (or even lower) in some countries?

The age of consent has absolutely nothing to do with this issue.

The law as it stands in the UK is such that a 16 year old could have a gang bang with a whole room full of old men (as long as none of them was in a 'position of authority' over her) and it would be perfectly legal.

However, if her 18 year old boyfriend were to take ONE photo of her, even clothed, walking in the park that a jury deemed was "indecent" then he could be locked up.

Just sayin'



Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Sep 04 12 10:22 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,304
Salem, Oregon, US


that whole glamour tag may do more harm than good. to some people glamour is just getting your hair and makeup done and having some nice headshots. to others it's soft porn. it doesn't really have any useful meaning except that the model will get dolled up.

Ray Cornett wrote:
1. The that photographer wants to do Glamour Nudes because she mentioned the word Glamour in her post.

Sep 04 12 10:29 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,304
Salem, Oregon, US


CAM time.

NicoleNudes wrote:
He's asking her to shoot nude, which is a big no-no.

Sep 04 12 10:31 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 37,877
Portland, Oregon, US


lauren-aimee wrote:
I know i sound VERY naive here but whats the age when you can start 'glamour' modelling as such ? i've been asked about a nude shoot and i thought you had to be 18 + but they said its unpublished so 16 is fine. What do you make of that ?

perv/creeper

Sep 04 12 10:33 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Wild Image Media
Posts: 173
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory, Australia


A no go area for any credible photographer.
Sep 04 12 10:33 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Robert Lynch
Posts: 2,483
Bowie, Maryland, US


twoharts wrote:
i thought age of consent was 16 (or even lower) in some countries? or does mayhem define minor as under 18 regardless of country?

The age of consent and the age of majority are two different things.

Sep 04 12 10:50 am  Link  Quote 
Model
lauren-aimee
Posts: 3
Bromsgrove-Catshill, England, United Kingdom


thank you for the comments smile yes, the person was from MM and i've reported them now
Sep 04 12 10:50 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Hugh Alison
Posts: 2,105
Aberystwyth, Wales, United Kingdom


twoharts wrote:
1).... would your parents be onboard with such a thing?


2)....your laws and culture may be different

1) Parental permission is irrelevant

2) Yes - as already explained.

Sep 04 12 10:57 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
G D Peters Photography
Posts: 2,986
North Platte, Nebraska, US


lauren-aimee wrote:
thank you for the comments smile yes, the person was from MM and i've reported them now

Wise decision.  Thank you.  smile

Sep 04 12 10:58 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
alessiman
Posts: 105
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia


I'm a bit late to the party on this one but I'm pretty sure that British and the Australian laws around nudity/sexuality in minors is very similar

I know in seasons of BNTM and ANTM underage contestants were required to do shoots in lingerie.  In cycle early cycles of BNTM nudity was quite common in shoots and i recall a couple of underage models in those series

Anyway I think it boils down to what constitute explicit/erotic shoots

Just ask Bill Henson!

Regardless, 16 and nude for a "private" portfolio.  That's all kinds of wrong
Sep 05 12 05:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Extrosy
Posts: 656
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US


Sounds like he'll be having a seat right over there...
Sep 08 12 10:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Myrna Byrna
Posts: 130
Chicago, Illinois, US


lauren-aimee wrote:
... i've been asked about a nude shoot and i thought you had to be 18 + but they said its unpublished so 16 is fine. What do you make of that ?

I think that the sort of stuff that gets people indicted for when they find it 'unplublished' on their computers and stuff...childhood pornography right?

Illegal I'm pretty darn sure and I hope you tell your parents about this perv as well as the police because, it sounds very wrong.

Jen

Sep 09 12 08:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Kaley King
Posts: 1,027
Jefferson City, Missouri, US


idk where they were from...ya no go in the US too...

http://www.justice.gov/criminal/ceos/ci … _porn.html

Additionally, the age of consent for sexual activity in a given state is irrelevant; any depiction of a minor under 18 years of age engaging in sexually explicit conduct is illegal.
Sep 09 12 08:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Leonard Gee Photography
Posts: 16,107
Sacramento, California, US


lauren-aimee wrote:
What do you make of that ?

Don't think age is an issue, legally. The nature of the photograph, your personal comfort level, your parents & friends and having images floating around are the things you should think about.

Sep 09 12 08:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
curious D
Posts: 7
Owensboro, Kentucky, US


I think the best rule of thumb to follow is if the llama is under age 18, be careful even taking shots of them in swimsuits. Though it is legal in the U.S. to take non-sexually explicit nude photos of people under age 18, just stay away from shooting anyone that young and no problem exists.
Sep 09 12 08:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Kaley King
Posts: 1,027
Jefferson City, Missouri, US


curious D wrote:
I think the best rule of thumb to follow is if the model is under age 18, be careful even taking shots of them in swimsuits. Though it is legal in the U.S. to take non-sexually explicit nude photos of people under age 18, just stay away from shooting anyone that young and no problem exists.

It's illegal to shoot even non explicit nudes of minors in the US.

Sep 09 12 09:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
matt-h2
Posts: 521
Oakland, California, US


La Lana  wrote:

It's illegal to shoot even non explicit nudes of minors in the US.

Cite, please.

Sep 09 12 09:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Wysiwyg Photography
Posts: 6,326
Salt Lake City, Utah, US


La Lana  wrote:
It's illegal to shoot even non explicit nudes of minors in the US.

You are wrong, but if you think you are right, you could post the law from a government sight where it says ALL nude photography of minors are illegal.

NOTE:
This does not mean *I* will photograph someone under 18 in the nude, it just means I want to know where it says it is illegal to photograph someone under 18 in the nude.

Sep 09 12 09:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Wysiwyg Photography
Posts: 6,326
Salt Lake City, Utah, US


La Lana  wrote:
idk where they were from...ya no go in the US too...

http://www.justice.gov/criminal/ceos/ci … _porn.html

Additionally, the age of consent for sexual activity in a given state is irrelevant; any depiction of a minor under 18 years of age engaging in sexually explicit conduct is illegal.

You do realize you just posted something about "Citizen's Guide to U.S. Federal Law on Child Pornography"

So... you feel all nudity is Pornography?

Sep 09 12 09:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Misty R H
Posts: 471
Anaheim, California, US


lauren-aimee wrote:
thank you smile i'll definitely say no then !

Lauren, that is a very wise decision.  You are so young you do not know where your life will go.  Modeling nude is a big decision that could impact the rest of your life.

For example, you may want to become a big corporate executive or work with kids and nude pictures could come back to haunt you.  Or perhaps you may end up marrying someone that wants to be in politics or a big corporate executive this could negatively impact him as well.

Also keep in mind if you want to be a professional model, modeling nude could lose you work. Some companies do not want their models associated with nudity. 


I am not against nude modeling and it certainly has it's place, but it is not a decision to be made lightly.  For one as young as you think about your future, because once you do it, you can't take it back.

Sep 09 12 09:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Kaley King
Posts: 1,027
Jefferson City, Missouri, US


Wysiwyg Photography wrote:

You are wrong, but if you think you are right, you could post the law from a government sight where it says ALL nude photography of minors are illegal.

NOTE:
This does not mean *I* will photograph someone under 18 in the nude, it just means I want to know where it says it is illegal to photograph someone under 18 in the nude.

I never said ALL.  But if anyone feels a nude pic is sexually suggestive...it's considered child porn. 

You feel that it's legal for a babysitter to take a bunch of naked pictures of kids they are watching even if they aren't engaging in sex?

Sep 09 12 09:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Kaley King
Posts: 1,027
Jefferson City, Missouri, US


Wysiwyg Photography wrote:

You do realize you just posted something about "Citizen's Guide to U.S. Federal Law on Child Pornography"

So... you feel all nudity is Pornography?

Obviously not...but it doesn't matter what I think on the matter...that wasn't my opinion.

I don't think that pot should be illegal, but does the justice system care?

Sep 09 12 09:56 pm  Link  Quote 
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